[00:00:08.210] – Alan Petersen
Hey, everybody. This is Alan with Meet the Thriller Author. For this episode of the podcast, I’m excited to be speaking with one of the world’s most renowned storytellers, Jeffrey Archer, with over 300 million copies sold in over 100 countries. Jeffrey Archer is a literary legend who has captivated readers for decades. His latest novel, An Eye for an Eye, is the seventh installment in the William Warwick series, which was released on September 24th and promises to deliver another gripping twisty and intricate storytelling that that he’s so famous for. In addition to being an incredible writer, Jeffrey, of course, served in the UK Parliament, five years in the House of Commons, thirty years in the House of Lords. So he brings a lot of wealth of insider knowledge to his novels, which I think is why they’re so exciting and fun to read. Jeffrey, thank you for joining us.

[00:01:15.560] – Jeffrey Archer
I’m delighted, Alan.

[00:01:17.270] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, such a great honor to talk to you. And so, Eye for an Eye, seventh book in the William Warwick series. I just have to ask, what initially inspired you to create this character, William Warwick, who’s A Detective with Scotland Yard’s Arts and Antiquities Squad. And how has it evolved in the series so far?

[00:01:35.260] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, it arose when I wrote a series called the Clifton Chronicles that went to number one on the New York Times and number one on the Los Angeles Times. And in it, in that particular story, my hero, Harry, was an author, and his eponymous hero was William Warrack. And people kept writing saying, Give us a William Warrack series. So I decided I decided to have a young man start in the Metropolitan Police as a constable and go all the way through to the rank of Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, which I knew would take eight books because he would go from constable to sergeant to inspector to chief inspector to superintendent, chief superintendent, commander, and if he makes it, Commissioner. In the final book, I also decided to have eight different subjects. So I started I started, as you mentioned, Alan, with Art and Antique Squad. I then moved on to the murder squad. I then moved on to Protocol. I then moved on to Drugs, so that every book, William is at a new rank and a new subject. In the latest, he’s in international negotiations in an eye for an eye, and he’s trying to get someone out of jail in a foreign country who is meant to be negotiated initiating a £3 billion arms deal.

[00:03:05.040] – Jeffrey Archer
But the villains have got our hero into jail, and now William has to get it out. And worse, while he’s in jail, Simon Hartley’s mother is getting worried about her own personal finances because she’s an old lady. And the villain Miles Faulkner moves in when he discovers that she’s in possession of a handwritten copy of the Declaration of Independence by none other than Thomas Jefferson. So I was inspired by that because I had seen in a Philadelphia sale that a printed copy, a Franklin printed copy, sold for 7.7 million. So I rang Sotheby’s and said, what would a handwritten copy by Thomas Jefferson fetch? And They thought $100 million. Wow. So that was the beginning of.

[00:04:08.510] – Alan Petersen
So that’s fascinating. So you started to get the idea, is that you just pick up the phone and you call Sotheby’s. I know I read an article on People magazine, how you wanted to talk to an art forager. I believe his name was Billy Mumford.

[00:04:20.420] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes. I have two outstanding researchers. One was formerly a Detective Sergeant in the Arts and Antiques Squad, and one was head of the murder squad, Chief Superintendent, Johnny Sutherland. But I rang Michel and said, Have you ever arrested a forger? And she said, I’ve arrested the best, Billy Mumford, the best, and I put him in jail, but he’s now out going straight. I said, I need to meet him. So she brought him round to the flat where I’m sitting talking to you now. I said to him, Now, can you produce a perfect copy of the Declaration Declaration of Independence as if it had been written by Jefferson? And it took him 14 weeks. I have it in my front room. You’ll see it in the back of the book. It’s an amazing achievement. But out there somewhere, Alan, is the real copy, because we know from a letter sent from Paris by Jefferson to Mr. Hartley in 17 1927, that he was writing it, and it’s been missing ever since. So it’s out there, someone. And if you find it, Alan, it’ll go for a hundred million.

[00:05:42.130] – Alan Petersen
I better pay more attention when I’m at those swap meets or the Those little antique stores you hear about on TV where somebody discovers a Picasso in the attic somewhere.

[00:05:51.410] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, quite right.

[00:05:54.310] – Alan Petersen
Wow. Yeah. And that’s another thing you mentioned, Miles Faulkner, and that’s something I’ve really enjoyed about your novels is you seem to put it in, of course, a lot of effort on the protagonist, but also the antagonists and the villains. Is that something you think about when you’re plotting these out?

[00:06:12.540] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, Miles Faulkner has become as much of a person, a hero, almost, that people write to me about. My wife has this theory, the villains are always more exciting. Miles Faulkner is a highly well-educated villain, and here he is after this copy of the Declaration of Independence, which he’d like to steal from poor Lady Hartley. But Lady Hartley is no fool, so there’s a nice twist there.

[00:06:41.650] – Alan Petersen
That’s another thing, too. How do you work on the twist? When you’re writing your books? Do you write these down or they just come to you as you’re writing them? I’m curious about your process because I know you’re well known for doing 14 draughts.

[00:06:55.050] – Jeffrey Archer
I get up at around 5:30 in the morning. I do a first draft between between 6:00 and 8:00, a second draft between 10:00 and 12:00, a third draft between 2:00 and 4:00, the final draft of the day between 6:00 and 8:00. I go to bed about 9:30, up again at 5:30 the next morning. The first draft will take me about 40 days, about 300 hours. And the book you have in front of you, the copy of an eye for an eye in front of you is the 14th draft. I I wish there was a shortcut, but it goes on being very hard work. But I always say to young authors, think of yourself as the prima ballerina at the Royal Ballet. Think how much work she does. And if you want to be number one on the New York Times best sellers list, you better do the same amount of work.

[00:07:49.790] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, you were publishing these very successful books when you were in the parliament in the whole nine yards. So there’s no excuse to not put in the time to write for people have to say, Who said they’re too busy.

[00:08:03.540] – Jeffrey Archer
You’ve got to do the work. I’m afraid the hours have got to be put in. There’s no shortcut. I once had a journalist come to see me and he said, Why didn’t my book go to number one, Jeffrey? And I said, Well, how many draughts did you do? He said, I’m a journalist. I did one draft and sent it in. I said, That may be the reason.

[00:08:25.190] – Alan Petersen
Yeah. So now you also mentioned, I know that this is interesting because I I knew that the eighth book coming up next year of this series- The final one. It’s the final one. So you mentioned the beginning- It’s the final one of the William Warrack’s. Okay. So you had to plot it off from the beginning because you said right in the beginning, you had eight different ideas. So you always intended to do eight books and finish it?

[00:08:45.160] – Jeffrey Archer
No. The eighth idea came when I realized that William Warrack was in this book that you have in front of you, a Chief Superintendent. And I needed him to be a Commander, and I needed him to move on to the next subject. It was then that I decided that I would move on to the Olympic Games, and in particular, the Olympic Games in 2012 in London, where William Warwick will be the Commander in charge of security. So I went back, Alan, to my two researchers, and I said, I need to meet the head of Security, who’s a Commander at Broadhurst, and the Commander came to see me. Now, normally, when I see one of these senior officers, they give me a couple of ideas. They straighten out some of my ridiculous theories that wouldn’t happen and wouldn’t be allowed. He sat down and told me what really happened at the Olympic Games and how the Russians and Chinese became involved. I’m telling you no more because I have never been given better material in my life. The British people, and I hope the American people, remembering you have the next Olympics are going to be shocked.

[00:10:01.980] – Jeffrey Archer
Beware, Americans, you’d better read the book.

[00:10:07.460] – Alan Petersen
Oh, yeah. I have to put that on the list now. And so now, I also read about your background. You actually write your books by hand. Is that still your process?

[00:10:19.400] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, that is. I don’t know. I can turn a light on. That’s about my ability. As you saw when we came on, Alan, my wife, very kindly, linked me up to you. I would have been literally incapable of doing it myself. I handwrite every word with a felt-tip pen. I’m always looking for the easiest. I never use a biro. Biros go so slowly over the paper. I have a felt-tip pen made by Pilot. If you can find a better one, I’ll change. But at the moment, that’s the one I use.

[00:10:54.270] – Alan Petersen
That’s working spendily for you. 300 million copies sold. Can’t grumbble. Yeah. I want to ask you, too, now, such success. I was wondering, what do you think is the key to maintaining such widespread and long-lasting appeal with readers? Because writers can come and go, and you’ve been here for many decades.

[00:11:16.050] – Jeffrey Archer
It’s a very fair question, and I was actually debating it on an English television show earlier today that John Grisham, Stephen King, John Lecarré, Freddy Fawciy and myself have It lasted for 40 years. Whereas, as you point out, Alan, some authors get a couple of years, two or three books, and they literally disappear. One of the most successful authors 10 years ago, and I’m not going to mention her name, bought out a book that sold millions. Her latest book has just come in the bestsellers list at number 27. So you’re quite right to span 40 years at that level. And the latest book, just to let you know, it came out on Tuesday. It’s already had 600 reviews, and the public have given it 4.7. I haven’t had 4.7 out of 5 since Cain and Abel. So you’re quite right. Longevity is far more important than bringing off one big book. I can’t complain because Cain and Abel changed my whole life. I mean, literally overnight, that book changed my whole life, and it’s now on its 132nd reprint.

[00:12:30.340] – Alan Petersen
Wow. Yeah, that’s the classic. And then your first book was Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less, right? Correct. That was your first novel? Okay. And Cain and Able was the breakthrough one?

[00:12:39.300] – Jeffrey Archer
Cain and Nable’s the breakthrough. The first one, Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less, was turned down by 16 publishers. The 17th publisher published it. They printed 3,000 copies. They just about sold them. And I remembered when I was in New York, going into Double Days on New York, and they had piles and piles of Robert Ludlum books to the ceiling, and I had to ask if they had a copy of not, and they went in search of it, and they found it. So I swore when I left that shop. I swore I would outsell Ludlum if it killed me. And of course, Bin Able was, as you rightly point out, Alan. It’s now sold 47 million copies. It’s been read by 100 million people, and it’s on its 132nd reprint. So it did change my life. But it hasn’t stopped me wanting to go on writing. I’m 84 years old. I still absolutely love it. I love getting up at 5:30. 30 in the morning, going to the desk and beginning once upon a time and praying.

[00:13:51.700] – Alan Petersen
Wow. I’m curious about your writing process, too. Do you outline your books or do you just go as you’re writing them?

[00:13:59.790] – Jeffrey Archer
So Some people do actually put pieces of paper on the wall showing where they’re going. Little tip sheets to show. I haven’t got a blimming clue. When I started Cain and Abel, I wrote the words, She only stopped screaming when she died. That’s a great line. It was then that he started to scream. All I knew was it was a story of two men, both born on the same day, one with everything, one with nothing. They would meet only once, and it would change their whole That’s all I knew. 700 pages later, Cain and Abel. With the latest book, I knew that Prime Minister was going to call for Simon Hartley and ask him to take over the negotiations for the £3 billion pound contract. I knew he would have to go to Saudi Arabia. I knew a Lebanese agent would have to be appointed, otherwise the minister wouldn’t get his cut. That is all I knew on day one.

[00:14:57.200] – Alan Petersen
That’s fascinating. Even just from Like a sentence or an idea, and you’ve sold 300 million copies. It’s a little bit surreal, isn’t it?

[00:15:07.490] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, that is the God-given gift side. That is the piece of luck. Many authors work just as hard as I do, and I work very hard to try and make the writing of a high standard. But you can’t… Telling the story, quite frankly, is a God-given gift.

[00:15:29.120] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, I’ve heard you I mentioned that before in another interview, is that there’s a lot of great writers out there, but not a lot. Storytelling is a whole different muscle.

[00:15:38.330] – Jeffrey Archer
And if you can combine the two, that’s when you get a Charles Dickens, you get an Alexander Jumah, it’s very rare. It’s very rare. You got to know Henry.

[00:15:51.990] – Alan Petersen
I was also fascinated in reading your book because you actually use the actual prime ministers. You don’t make up a prime minister. How doesHow does that work? And since you know all these people, do you ever hear any negative?

[00:16:05.000] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, I’ve been in politics for 50 years and had the privilege of working for Margaret Thatcher for 11 years and John Major for seven years. So I have a feel for politics and like to get it in. I do know that a deal was done with Saudi Arabia on the 3 billion arms deal. I knew that the Prime Minister called for someone who wasn’t known for dealing in arms. I knew that much. So I saw the man Margaret Thatcher had chosen. Fascinating multimillionaire, now a billionaire. And he said, No one was more surprised than me, Jeffrey, when the Prime Minister called for me. But she said, You’re the greatest negotiator in our country. Go and close the deal and remember, we’re up against the French. So off he went, which was It’s fascinating, to say the least. I sat and listened to him and what he did and the problems he faced, and I’ve tried to put it on paper.

[00:17:09.010] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s something in reading An Eye for an Eye, like you’ve mentioned, there’s the Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration of Independence, Saudi at oil deals, there’s an auction in New York. It’s like a real fascinating globe-triding thriller. But you keep it moving fast and it’s always entertaining Is that part of your reasoning? That must be part of that storytelling skill that you’ve mentioned before.

[00:17:35.690] – Jeffrey Archer
You mustn’t bore the reader. Your purpose is to make them turn the page. If they don’t want to turn the page, they’ll either put it down or not continue. So yes, my purpose is to make you turn the page.

[00:17:52.360] – Alan Petersen
I love how your book, like in a cliffhanger. I mean, it’s a contained story, but the series arc continues on. I see so many reviews of people can’t wait for the eighth book. So that’s going to be a little pressure, but fun to see those comments.

[00:18:10.730] – Jeffrey Archer
It’s fascinating you say that. I had an incident today where a friend of mine purchased the latest copy, An Eye for an Eye, and said to a friend when they were having, Oh my God, he said, I’ve left your present in the gallery where he it works. I’ll send it to you. And the friend said, You won’t. I want it now. So the answer to your question is yes. The loyal fans, the ones who’ve been there from the beginning, the ones who believe in that, they can’t wait. That’s the tough thing, Alan. When you’re writing a new book, you know they’re waiting, and that puts even more pressure on you. And I think that’s a challenge I really enjoy. And the fact, as I said earlier in the show, that An Eye for an Eye has now passed six 100 reviews in three days and is at 4.7, that is thrilling for any author.

[00:19:07.310] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it doesn’t get old. No matter you have 27 books out, it’s always a thrill when it first comes out, a little nerve-wracking.

[00:19:14.400] – Jeffrey Archer
It’s still a thrill, and publication day is still a big deal. But to honestly answer your question, I then sit much more in trepidation to find out what the public think. So if they thought this if the book was a 3.8 or a 3.9, I’d have been very depressed. It opened up at 4.7. It fell after 100 reviews to 4.6. I thought, that’s it. It’s going to settle at 4.6. And an hour and a half ago, it went back up to 4.7. So that’s what an old foggy like me worries about. Publication day, that’s fun. The book’s out, that’s fun. Seeing the cover, seeing the book, that’s fun. But hearing what the public really think is deadly because they don’t know you and they tell you the truth.

[00:20:10.450] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s so fascinating. I know I read a quote from James Patterson saying the same thing, too, that basically the readers are the bosses and you’re trying to please them, not wow them or impress them with anything, just trying to give them a good story. So I think that speaks a lot to your style, too, that you’re very concerned about the reader, making sure that they’re going to enjoy it. And you’re worried about what their feedback is going to be. So that’s us.

[00:20:35.250] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, you’re very aware that… You mentioned earlier, authors that disappear overnight having had a success. You’re very aware. Why wouldn’t it happen to you? I mean, I’ve written 41 books, including 92 short stories. Why wouldn’t they say, We’ve had enough of you, Jeffrey. Good night. We like this new person. An old foggy like me is always aware that they can be cast aside. Yeah, absolutely, Allan.

[00:21:01.490] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, you mentioned your short stories. You’ve written some diaries, prison diaries you wrote. What’s the difference between writing a novel or a short story? Do you approach it differently?

[00:21:11.040] – Jeffrey Archer
Short story, you might tell me A short story. Everybody’s had an incident in their life, which is unique and fascinating. There’s not a story in every one of us. That’s dribble. And by that, I mean, there isn’t a novel in every one of us. That’s dribble. But I’ll give an example. I was in New Zealand quite recently, and an old man of 104 came up to see me, and of course, I was very respectful. And he said, I’ve had my letter from the Queen, my telegram, congratulating me on being 104 years ago. I wanted to live to 104. I said, Why do you want to live to 104? He said, Well, my wife would then get a telegram, and we’d be able to put the two telegrams on the wall next to each other. I said, What a wonderful. He said, Yes, but no telegram came when I was 104. I rang up the palace and spoke to the major in charge of telegrams, and he asked for my name, and I told him. He said, Yes, you got your telegram four years ago, sir. He said, I know, but my wife is now 100, and she hasn’t had hers.

[00:22:20.050] – Jeffrey Archer
And he replied, She had hers six years ago, sir. Now, the answer to your question, Alan, is that is a short story. That is not a novel. It’s a magic short story, and it was a privilege to write it. And it’s called the Queen’s Birthday Telegram. But it isn’t a novel. And then, whereas Cain and Abel, two men Born on the same day, one with everything, one with nothing. They only meet once, and it changes their whole life. 700 pages.

[00:22:56.310] – Alan Petersen
Wow, 700 pages. You did those all by handwritten. That’s amazing.

[00:23:04.260] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, well, we’re not layabouts like you, Allan.

[00:23:06.270] – Alan Petersen
Sorry, I don’t need to focus on that. It’s just so amazing. I’m very impressed with that. It’d be great for the distractions because now in this world, so many distractions when you’re trying to write.

[00:23:19.000] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, your presidential election, because of my love of politics and my dear friend Bill Bradley, Senator Bradley of New Jersey, we were at Oxford together and we discussed Every other Sunday, we discussed the latest position. You couldn’t write it. You could not write this stuff in a novel. No one would believe it. It’s absolutely… How can a man who said that immigrants eat people’s pets and then says that one state is killing children when they’re born, how can he even be in the race? We in Britain don’t understand that. It’s beyond understanding. But I’m told by the experts, he might well win on November the fifth. If I wrote that in a novel, you’d laugh at me.

[00:24:11.050] – Alan Petersen
Well, Trump said that he could shoot somebody in Times Square, and nobody would care. So I’m sorry, I think he’s right.

[00:24:15.000] – Jeffrey Archer
I’m afraid that’s a bit near the truth.

[00:24:19.090] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it’ll be fascinating. So that’s fascinating. What are the people in the UK think about it? Do they think we’re crazy over here because of what’s going on?

[00:24:26.950] – Jeffrey Archer
Well, to be fair, it’s quite It’s hard to understand. I was recently giving a lecture, which I was enjoying immensely. Then an American said to me, How would you vote, Jeffrey, if you were an American? I said, I would have voted for Nikki Haley in the first round, but Trump beat her. But had she won, I would have voted for Nikki Haley against Biden. And had Biden withdrawn, I would have voted for Nikki Haley against Kamala Harris. Because I thought she’d make an outstanding President of the United States. And perhaps it’s time you had a woman President. But your candidate, Mr. Trump, President Trump, got nearly killed with a shot. If he had been killed, Biden would never have withdrawn. If he had been killed, Nikki Haley would have been the Republican candidate. And according to the poll, she’d have beaten Biden by eight points. So history changed in that one shot, fascinatingly so. So people like myself are glued. I watched the vice presidential debate last week. Absolutely fascinated, particularly by the Democratic vice presidential candidate asking J. D. Vance, Do you believe Trump won the last election? And he said, I’m concentrating on the future.

[00:25:59.310] – Jeffrey Archer
I told That’s all you needed to know because Mr. Vance is a very remarkable man. I mean, from that, I’ve read the Hillbilly Elegy and truly admire it. Masterpiece of writing. And he clearly is a very clever man. But I still haven’t got a clue who’s going to win on November the fifth. As an Englishman looking from the outside, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump won.

[00:26:27.220] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, same thing here. I just don’t know. I never I thought he would win in 2016, and he did.

[00:26:32.840] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes. And Mrs. Clinton beat him by three million. Joe Biden beat him by seven million, and he claimed he’d won. So the answer to your question, Alan, is we are puzzled in England. Yes.

[00:26:51.960] – Alan Petersen
As a former politician yourself, the theatrics of Trump getting shot and waving his fist in the air, I mean, He played that very well.

[00:27:02.220] – Jeffrey Archer
He played it brilliantly and courageously. I sat there watching it in admiration, whatever you feel about the man, to stand up there like that in front of a crowd when he could have been shot again was absolutely remarkable. It doesn’t seem to have moved the dial. I read this morning’s papers that Kamala Harris has gone into a three and a half % lead, and in five of the crucial seven states, she’s leading, and Trump is leading in two of them. So it’s still clearly very close and will depend on those seven states.

[00:27:44.580] – Alan Petersen
It’ll be interesting to see what happens. That’s for sure.

[00:27:47.030] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes.

[00:27:47.680] – Alan Petersen
So before I let you go, I just wanted to ask you, so you’re working on the 8th-The final book of the William Warwick. The eighth. Final book. Any sneak peeks or at all? Are they quiet right now?

[00:28:02.430] – Jeffrey Archer
All I can tell you is that as Commander in charge of the security at the Olympic Games, he discovers something that nobody knew about. If it had happened, the Olympic Games would have been canceled. That is a fact. You say, How do you blend fact and fiction, Jeffrey? That is a fact. When you read the book, you might not be able to work out because he told me 11 things. Seven were true and four I’ve made up. And you will have to decide Which is the truth and what have I made up?

[00:28:50.630] – Alan Petersen
Well, looking forward to that, especially with, like you said, it’s coming to the United States. Next one.

[00:28:55.390] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, you’re coming. We’re coming. I went to the last games in Los Angeles, which I enjoyed immensely and absolutely brilliantly run games, one of the best I’ve ever been to. And I’m looking forward to it coming back to Los Angeles, because if one thing the Americans can do well in Hollywood and California, they’ll do it. It’ll be spectacular. But they better read my book and see what the Russians and Chinese were up to because they hate the Americans as much as they hate the British. Oh, yeah.

[00:29:30.980] – Alan Petersen
I’m sure there’s nothing that would make them more happy than mess up our Olympics.

[00:29:35.890] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, I agree.

[00:29:38.470] – Alan Petersen
All right, Jeffrey, well, thank you so much. For listeners, they want to find more about your work, jeffreyarcher. Com is probably the best place to go find more about you.

[00:29:47.290] – Jeffrey Archer
Yes, indeed. All right. I’m going to buy the book you lay about.

[00:29:52.670] – Alan Petersen
Yes, it’s available now, and it’s a great read. So go buy it. I agree. All right. Thanks for you so much. It was nice to talk to you.

[00:30:02.260] – Jeffrey Archer
Thank you, Alan. Very you to have me on the show.

[00:30:05.440] – Alan Petersen
It was an honor. Have a good day.

[00:30:07.460] – Jeffrey Archer
You, too.