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[00:00:03.700] – Voice Over
Welcome to Meet the Thriller Author, the podcast where host Alan Petersen interviews mystery and thriller writers from around the world. A thriller author himself, Alan brings listeners engaging conversations with everyone from best-selling legends like Lee Child, Walter Moseley, Frieda McFadden, and Dean Koontz, to exciting new voices in the thriller and mystery genre. For show notes, archives, and more, visit visit thrillerauthors. Com, where you can also check out Alan’s own thriller novels and join the Thrilling Reads newsletter. And don’t forget to rate and review Meet the Thriller Author on your favorite podcast platform, especially Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Now, let’s dive in. The latest episode starts right now.

[00:00:48.980] – Alan Petersen
Before we jump into episode 227, I wanted to share something that’s genuinely helped me in my own writing journey. A few years ago, I took James Patterson’s masterclass, and his outlining lesson completely changed the way I structure my readers. I still use that method for every book I write. If you’d like to check it out, I put together a link that helps support the podcast over at thrillingreads.com/patterson. No pressure at all. It’s just a resource I personally recommend and still refer back to.

[00:01:17.340] – Alan Petersen
Hey, everybody. This is Alan with Meet the Thriller Author. On the podcast today, I have Brian Manning, who’s half of the Manning Brothers duo who write fast-paced action readers, including the popular John Stone series. Brian, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:31.340] – Brian Manning
Thank you for having me, Alan.

[00:01:32.550] – Alan Petersen
I have to ask right off the bat, does you and your brother write these great readers? You both grew up in Las Vegas. I’m just curious, when did the storytelling first become something that you shared as brothers, or was one of you got into it first? What’s the story there?

[00:01:46.290] – Brian Manning
Yeah, so we grew up reading comic books and sci-fi fiction stuff. And then later on, in our college years, we both basically rated our dad’s bookshelf and started reading his thriller stuff like the Stephen Hunter, like the Bob Lee swagger stuff. So that was ’90s, up to late ’90s. And then we basically didn’t do any ambitions for writing and stuff like that. But we played a lot of tabletop playing games, and I was always writing these long back stories for characters or campaigns I was running that no one ever saw. But around 2013, I started writing short stories and publishing them on Amazon. And one of them was a superhero novel. Use this novel as a way to convince Alan to join me. Like, Hey, let’s write superhero stuff. And he goes, Let’s write action movie stuff. So basically, it started… That’s how the John Stone stuff started. He said, I want to write a story that’s basically a Schwarzenegger movie set in today, like an ’80s Schwarzenegger movie set in modern time, which was at the time 2015, 2016. So we created the Jon Stone series. And my idea was, Hey, if we have a character that’s ’80s and inspired.

[00:03:00.260] – Brian Manning
Let’s also do ’90s, 2000s, and 2010s. So we had these four standalone novels that were basically our quote, unquote, Avengers, where we were going to tell these stories, and all of them were going to meet up at this larger book. But the Jon Stone stuff took off like a rocket. We had these three standalone books that didn’t really get as much traction as we as hope. We were just bringing those characters into the John Stone stuff right away. That basically We got Alan hooked on the writing. But I was hooked, like I said, since I was doing the short stories and stuff, 2013. We later did do more superhero stuff, but action readers is like our bread and butter.

[00:03:42.720] – Alan Petersen
You were working in the multiverse. Like, right? It was around the time as the Avengers.

[00:03:49.520] – Brian Manning
We were basically, Hey, if Marvel can do it, we can do the same thing. Because the Avengers had come out in 2012. So we’re like, Let’s do that. So we were trying to Tell that story.

[00:04:01.460] – Alan Petersen
So you guys, you’re fans of… You said you started reading your dad’s thriller. So you’re fans of the genres before you tried to write your own?

[00:04:08.560] – Brian Manning
Yeah. Like I said, we started reading sci-fi stuff like Star Wars books. And we’re also a role-playing game nerd, so we were reading Shadow Runs and stuff. But it was those Stephen Hunter books, the Bob Lee swagger stuff. And then later on, not exactly military thriller stuff, but like post-apocalypse prepper stuff that Alan especially got into, like the DJ Mollet, like the Lee Harden stuff, the remaining. A lot of what we write comes from the ’90s readers and the 2000s prepper fiction, even though we don’t write prepper fiction. But he brought a lot of that to our stories, too, like the struggle, basically.

[00:04:50.770] – Alan Petersen
So the thriller part without the prepper part.

[00:04:52.940] – Brian Manning
Yeah, yes.

[00:04:54.400] – Alan Petersen
I read one of your books a few years ago. It is like you said, you guys are leading to the movies. It does read very cinematic. Is that something like… Was that from the beginning, your approach to it?

[00:05:07.560] – Brian Manning
Yes. It’s completely intentional. Our idea was we write books for people who love movies. I’m not saying these 100,000-word stories are too long or something. I’m just saying you don’t always need that. We always want to write a fast-paced book. Most of our books are around the 50,000-word range, but we have some that are getting close to like 80, 90,000, but the goal is to keep them fast paced. We just want to move from one thing to the next. Alan’s real big on compressing timeline, so I’ll have a story that takes place over weeks. He’s like, Can we get it down to days? So it feels like it flows faster. And then a lot of that means we’re cutting stuff out, but that’s fine because we’re trying to tell the story. We’re trying to just get from A to Z, basically. So, yeah, the movie stuff, that feeling is completely intentional.

[00:05:59.680] – Alan Petersen
It’s What about you guys? Because you both live in Las Vegas, right? Do you work together or separate?

[00:06:07.040] – Brian Manning
What’s that process like? I’m no longer in the casino gaming industry. I’ve been writing full-time for a few years now, but We were both in the casino gaming industry where we both started web design for casino gaming companies at the same company in late ’90s, early 2000. But then our paths split. We’re same industry, casino gaming, but we’ve always just been with different companies ever since. But it’s Vegas, so it’s a small industry. So we all know the same people. We all go to lunch and hang out and stuff like that.

[00:06:39.180] – Alan Petersen
You have a lot of co-authors. Well, not a lot, but there’s a lot of co-authoring going on, especially the last few years, especially the big names like James Patterson, of course. Yeah. Met the whole brother, sibling. I have a brother, too. I don’t know if I could write with him. That’s pretty cool.

[00:06:55.720] – Brian Manning
It does help that we’re twins, though. I feel like we’re probably Because it’s not that we have this weird psychic thing. It’s just we were twins, so we had to share a room, had to share clothes and toys and stuff like that. We’re just together a lot growing up. We just have the same mentality and ideas. It helps in that regard.

[00:07:19.080] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, my brother’s eight years old, so I couldn’t touch any of his stuff. Eight years old.

[00:07:23.560] – Brian Manning
He weren’t allowed. Like, Get out of here. Yeah, exactly. Get out of here.

[00:07:27.500] – Alan Petersen
I’m curious now on your writing process. How much planning goes into these books? Do you guys outline? What’s your process like?

[00:07:34.530] – Brian Manning
Yeah, we do basically a one-pager where we have the… It’s almost approach a screenplay. We have the logline, the characters, and the main story. But then we have a bunch of them. Like every writer, there’s just dozens. We have this folder that’s just full of ideas. We have one that we like, and we’ll actually break it out into these phases. Then basically, It’s like the intro and all these game-changing events that drive the story, but they’re very general. Then we start outlining. Then on our outlines, the first third of the outline is pretty detailed. Then it starts to get less and less detailed. By the end, it’s just basic bullet points because I don’t think we’ve ever completed a story where the outline at the end matched where the story took us. But it gives us direction. Then we have one part of the outline. We have a section called stuff that happens in this book, and it’s all these action scenes or character reveal moments that we want to include in there. Then we just have this list to make sure. They don’t always get in there, but we just want to make sure a lot of that stuff makes it in the book.

[00:08:47.310] – Alan Petersen
If one doesn’t make it to one book, but you like it a lot, does it sometimes then recycle to another book?

[00:08:51.680] – Brian Manning
There’s one crazy one where we had a character hurled from a drone in a wingsuit that was in the outline for book 2, and it didn’t make it until book 5. So it was carried on repeatedly. Like, No, we’re doing it. We’re doing it. It’s happening.

[00:09:09.740] – Alan Petersen
So how do you guys divide the actual writing then? Do you both write at the same time or do you pass the managed document back and forth?

[00:09:17.020] – Brian Manning
The way the Jon Stone series started was he was writing that first Jon Stone book, The Hard Kill, and I was tackling our ’90s character, which was more of a cop-action movie So he handled the first draft of the Jon Stone stuff. I handled the first draft of the character Chance Hunter, and then we swapped. And then I finished his, he finished mine. But I was doing this longer at the time, so I was a faster writer. So I would finish the Jon Stone one, and he hadn’t been finished with the other book, so I would move on to the next series, and then the next one after that. And then it got to the point where I was just doing the first draft. Actually, no, we do the outline. He basically makes sure that the the flow works, and then I’ll do the rough draft, and then he is essentially the developmental editor at that point. And then we’re just working back and forth in that way. So the bulk of the sloppy writing. And then we just, as a sculptor, I throw all the clay down, and then we work together molding it.

[00:10:19.860] – Alan Petersen
Getting that first draft up, basically. Yeah. You actually expanded, too. You have the Scott Maverick series, and you have The Daniel Lee. So what was that like to expand to other characters? How did that process evolve?

[00:10:36.960] – Brian Manning
The Scott Maverick one is, again, another goofy idea Alan had. He’s like, I want… Even though it’s in a book, he’s like, I want the actor who plays Jon Stone to play Scott Maverick, but the book is set in the ’80s. So the Scott Maverick, we’re calling it the Thrilogy, is set in the ’80s, and it’s just buddy cop action thriller stuff. But then later we brought Scott Maverick into the Jon Stone series. But he’s obviously 20, 30 years older than Jon Stone, but they’re essentially the same guy. So everyone’s making a comment like, he looks like your drunk uncle. So that worked out like we had this character that had a different series that we brought in. But the Jon Stone series ended after nine books, and it was probably a mistake on our part. So we started another series, which is Daniel Lee, completely separate from the Jon Stone stuff because everything we’d written thriller-wise to that point was connected in this one large universe. Okay. Because the Jon Stone stuff is about 15 books total, even though the core is nine books. But the Daniel Lee stuff we wanted to start from scratch.

[00:11:45.570] – Brian Manning
That’s smaller in scale, it’s like a single character. The Jon Stone stuff was massive. You get like dozens of characters, and it’s hard to juggle that stuff. I just wanted to do one guy. It’s inspired by Burn Notice and the Equalizer. So that’s our current ongoing one. And then we’re not going to end that after nine books. We’re just going to keep that ongoing.

[00:12:08.740] – Alan Petersen
Okay, yeah. Also, you’re ready to do Ending Jon Stone? Is that the.?

[00:12:12.980] – Brian Manning
Yes. It’s not like John is done. It’s just the story is so epic. We’re like, Well, where do we go from here? Actually, our idea is we’re going to keep doing John Stone stuff. But that was like, years later, we’re like, Maybe Maybe we should just keep it going. Maybe he just starts fresh, like smaller. He doesn’t need his whole team with him because they saved the world already. So now he gets to beat up bad guys on his own.

[00:12:41.460] – Alan Petersen
It’d be cool. Kind of like an equalizer. Denzel Washington Yeah.

[00:12:46.240] – Brian Manning
That was what we intended to do with Daniel Lee. But I think more people… Like, Jon Stone has such a big audience. It makes sense to continue that as well.

[00:12:55.240] – Alan Petersen
Yeah. I was going to say your Maverick covers totally jumped out to me as an ’80s.

[00:13:01.660] – Brian Manning
Right here. Yeah. We do the vaporwave esthetic and ’80s chrome and stuff. Yeah, it’s like Miami Vice. Yeah, that was the first one was inspired by Miami Vice. We called it Miami Winter. Oh, cool. Because We’re both artists. So it started as just an ’80s book, and I didn’t know what the cover is going to be like, so I just went with this full vapor wave. Let’s just go full ’80s. Grids and sunsets and palm trees, except the palm trees are AK-47s. And then that carried through to the rest of the series.

[00:13:35.380] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, and I said when I was doing a little research with you guys before the interview, and I saw one of your earlier ones, the comic book type books that you’d Penciling. So you’re both very talented art, art, drawers. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:13:49.400] – Brian Manning
It’s like, wow. Because our background is from comic books as far as our art style. But we’re like, I want to be a I’m a comic artist when I grew up, and my parents were like, Hey, maybe go to school for a backup thing. So we went for graphic arts. Okay. So of course, we didn’t become comic book artist. We just did graphic arts. But we still do the 2% power superhero series, I did the penciling, Alan does the inking, and then we actually hired a professional comic book artist to do the colors for those.

[00:14:25.840] – Alan Petersen
Cool. Do you guys do your own covers then for your Twitter?

[00:14:28.880] – Brian Manning
Yes. Like It’s the money there, too. This right one right here, Blood, Red, Moon, our Horror Series. That was the first fully illustrated one I did where I just from scratch did a movie poster-style painting. But mostly it’s graphic arts style. We just take existing elements. Or the Scott Maverick stuff we just did from scratch, but they’re all graphic style images, not illustrations.

[00:14:58.300] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it’s really cool covers. Curious, now, you guys have been writing now for over 10 years now, right? As a team? Yeah. Has that process evolved? Or has it worked so well? Are you just not changing it?

[00:15:12.780] – Brian Manning
Yeah, it evolved because like I said at the beginning, we were both doing the rough draughts, but it evolved to where he is more of the developmental editor. That’s a more recent thing. That started with the Daniel Lee stuff, where I was taking on the initial role, and then just he would guide it that way because that works a lot better for us. I’m trying to get him to write more rough draft stuff because we have a lot of ideas, a lot of books. But that’s the rhythm that we’ve come into now.

[00:15:48.180] – Alan Petersen
Yeah. Well, the process has worked so well for you guys. How many books do you have out so far in total?

[00:15:53.240] – Brian Manning
We’ve got two dozen books out now, but we’ve got about 27 or 28 written. Just they’re not done done. They’re not published yet.

[00:16:03.000] – Alan Petersen
Oh, wow. So you have a nice pipeline.

[00:16:05.300] – Brian Manning
Yeah. Well, the two newest books that we have published, we actually published under a pen name with another author in Australia because those are completely outside of the thriller genre. So we didn’t want Amazon to cross-promote. And these people were like, This is not what we signed up for. Those two. But the second book in that series just is available for pre-order now. That’s going to be live next week.

[00:16:28.440] – Alan Petersen
Oh, okay. Was that Is that fun to do a different genre? Like take a little breather for the readers?

[00:16:34.620] – Brian Manning
Yes, but we tried… I mean, we tried outside of thriller stuff. I love it, but I don’t think that we are able to capture that market yet. I feel like you got to go all in on it. I think this sci-fi stuff or anything outside of thriller genre stuff is always going to be more personal project stuff for us because we have Yeah, we have a cyber punk story we’ve got written and ready to go, but I’m like, I don’t think it’s going to sell all that well. Then we’ve got… When Kindle Vela was a thing, we had a sci-fi story, heavily influenced by pro-wrestling because we love pro-wrestling. It was released one chapter at a time. We have a full story done already that we want to release, but I feel like there’s no market for it. It’s not worth our time to clean up and re-release just yet.

[00:17:35.140] – Alan Petersen
Oh, yeah. I know how that goes.

[00:17:36.900] – Brian Manning
But it’s a lot of fun writing outside of Thriller stuff. But Thriller, it’s like, that’s just our thing.

[00:17:43.880] – Alan Petersen
What’s What’s the process then? For the writing-wise, so what’s your process then like, writing-wise? So do you usually write in the same spot? Do you have set hours, word count goals? Can you tell us about that?

[00:17:54.980] – Brian Manning
Yeah, the way I started writing was like I said, I was working a day job. The the casino gaming stuff. I would write at night after work, but after work, you’re just done, spent mentally. I just started writing. I just started waking up earlier and writing in the morning at this desk right here. I would spend about an hour and a half, two hours writing before I had to go to work. And that just became so ingrained. This is where I write now. I just stand at this computer and write. But Alan, at one time, he was using dictation, like that dragon, naturally speaking. So he was dictating into his phone, and he does editing on his phone, which is why he’s a little slower writing full draft. So it works a lot better that he’s doing the more developmental stuff because he doesn’t have a steady rhythm or process yet. I say yet, it’s been six years since he started doing the developmental stuff.

[00:18:57.240] – Alan Petersen
I’m amazed people could do it on their phones. I’ve tried. I don’t have it. I need a complete-I try as well.

[00:19:03.320] – Brian Manning
I try as well, but I need a full keyboard.

[00:19:06.460] – Alan Petersen
You mentioned that Daniel Lee is your current… The ones that you’re working on now. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:19:14.080] – Brian Manning
It’s basically Daniel Lee is inspired by Burn Notice and the Equalizer and the Born Identity, the Born series. It’s a character that has a past that’s similar to an entity like Treadstone. We’re calling it Blackwell. He was part of this. They’re shady, not the best organization. So at one point… So he’s not a hero or anything. He’s got a shady past, too. But at one point, something goes wrong. He’s thought dead. Then when he recovers, he’s like, Hey, I’m going to use this opportunity to basically walk away. But the character is a magnet for trouble. He attracts it and he’s drawn to it. He’s just basically wandering through and then just helping people to make make up for his past sins. And then he’s like a burn notice. He’s got to stay one step ahead of the people that burned him, basically. That one’s fun because they’re smaller stories. And we’re working on the sixth book in the series, which should be available next month or probably when this episode goes live. It should be available. Yeah. And it’s, again, inspired by episodes of those TV shows or movies. The sixth book is inspired by one of our new favorite movies, The Beekeeper, I remember.

[00:20:31.180] – Alan Petersen
Oh, yeah. That’s Jason’s.

[00:20:32.920] – Brian Manning
Yeah, the Jason’s Date of the movie. Yeah, that’s the one. We’re carrying that vibe into this.

[00:20:38.040] – Alan Petersen
Daniel Lee, I know we already mentioned this. Sorry. It’s completely different from Stone, though, right? That’s a whole different universe. Okay. Yes.

[00:20:45.100] – Brian Manning
It’s like the Johnstone universe. We’re naming actual cities and States and stuff like that. And Daniel Lee, all the towns are made up.

[00:20:52.900] – Alan Petersen
Okay, cool.

[00:20:53.700] – Brian Manning
I don’t want to… Yeah, so the States he’s in are normal. We’re just making up towns because I don’t want to have I have to look up landmarks and have people expect certain things. But there’s analogs to it. The Book 7 or 8, we don’t know which one yet, will take place in Nevada. So you have to do a casino town place, either Vegas or Reno, or you can have Crooked Casino operators in it. But nothing linked to the real world or to the John Stone stuff.

[00:21:23.000] – Alan Petersen
Just notice on your website, you guys are doing a lot of direct selling. That’s pretty incredible. How’s that going? Difficult. Not a lot Very difficult.

[00:21:30.980] – Brian Manning
Yeah, we wanted to break away from Amazon long ago, but a lot of our earlier success came from Kindle Unlimited. And then we foolishly took our foot off the gas, like six or five or six books into the John Stone stuff. And then we’ve been trying to regain that momentum. But Kindle Unlimited hasn’t been bringing as much money in for us. It still works for a lot of other authors. So we’ve been pulling books out slowly. And then now, basically, our entire catalog is available on our own website. So we have the freedom to bundle books to get these discount bundles to get people in to buy the first five or six books. But you have to do a lot of advertising. And Facebook ads It’s so wild because they’ll just make drastic algorithm changes, and all of a sudden, your ad just stops working. Like, what? So it’s a lot of work. We’re doing crazy, weird marketing stuff to try to get right now. Here’s John Stone, what we do. I don’t know if you can notice, but this version has two bullet holes in the cover. We’re calling it our double tapped edition.

[00:22:42.780] – Brian Manning
Oh, cool. Bullet holes in the cover and title page, but not the rest of the book. The rest of the book is.

[00:22:48.740] – Alan Petersen
Okay, so those are special editions only available for you?

[00:22:53.670] – Brian Manning
Yeah. And you actually get a bookmark with the brass that we use to shoot the cover.

[00:22:59.320] – Alan Petersen
Oh, that is Cool. Oh, you actually shot the cover?

[00:23:02.140] – Brian Manning
Yeah, we take it out to the desert and shoot the book and autograv it. But we don’t know how well it’s going to do yet because this is recent. We just put this together. So we have to try weird marketing stuff like that to get attention because it seemed to get a lot of attention on Facebook and with our friends and stuff. They thought it was a great idea. Yeah, that sounds great. We’re hoping it works. We haven’t shot a bunch of books yet. We’re going to do it as they’re ordered.

[00:23:28.160] – Alan Petersen
Do you guys do a lot of live events, selling conferences and stuff?

[00:23:32.420] – Brian Manning
No, we should, though. We just missed the Vegas Book Fair thing last weekend. So we’re not as up on live event stuff like we should be for selling books ourselves.

[00:23:45.840] – Alan Petersen
I’m going to be out there next week. There’s author nation conferences there in Vegas. Oh, really? Yeah, it used to be the Horseshoe. Oh, no, it is Horseshoe now. It used to be Bally’s. It’s in the Horseshoe.

[00:23:57.880] – Brian Manning
Oh, author nation. Was that the- It used to be 20 Books. It used to be 20 Books. Yeah, 20 Books, Vegas. We went to the first two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Craig Martell was running that, but I guess it’s a lot of work. So he handed it off to someone else.

[00:24:14.680] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, I think it was killing him. We had to get rid of that.

[00:24:19.800] – Brian Manning
We went to, I want to say, 2017 and 2019. Yeah, those were fantastic events.

[00:24:26.720] – Alan Petersen
I was at the first one, too.

[00:24:28.490] – Brian Manning
Yeah, so it was 2017, Yeah, we must have crossed each other. Yeah, and didn’t even realize it. Those are fantastic events because we leave just fired up and we learn a lot about blurb writing. That’s how our process for outlining came from, like breaking the story down in these seven distinct phases. It all came from the 20 book stuff.

[00:24:49.640] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s great. That’s cool. Small world.

[00:24:51.820] – Brian Manning
Yeah.

[00:24:53.220] – Alan Petersen
One thing I always ask my guests before I wrap things up here, because I have aspiring writers to listen to this. Any advice, especially if somebody’s thinking about doing co-authoring and then with a family member, maybe?

[00:25:05.780] – Brian Manning
Co-authoring, okay. I’ll start general. Obviously, you have to put reps in. It’s like everything else is a skill. You have to keep writing. So not everything you do is going to be perfect. The earlier books are not the best in our series, but we’re still proud of them. We don’t want to be like George Lucas, where we’re going and redoing everything. But you’re just going to get better the more books you release. Also, the big thing for me is write what you read. If you want to write to market, but you don’t read that market, there’s nuances in those genres that the readers will pick up on. Or if you do your research and start writing it, you’re not going to be as invested if you don’t enjoy actually reading that stuff. It’ll be a lot harder to finish a book if you’re not writing what you enjoy reading. As far as writing with a sibling, you’re going to have to throw away stuff that you like just to get the team work going. Not stuff that’s great, just stuff that you like the idea. But ultimately, you have to trust that the product will be better in the end because we’ve stripped out full chapters When I say we, I mean, he has stripped, Alan has stripped out full chapters.

[00:26:20.900] – Brian Manning
I’m not happy about it, but I’m not going to argue with him because I look at it and go, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So ultimately, I do like it. But those things that we strip out, we try to find somewhere else to put them, hardly ever happens because they were stripped out for a reason. But you got to learn to learn to live with that loss. Because I’ve written entire outlines that he said, This is boring. So we started from scratch. I was like, Oh, that’s a day of work.

[00:26:51.000] – Alan Petersen
Rough. Okay. Trust me, a development of editors. Yeah.

[00:26:55.720] – Brian Manning
So it’s going to be give and take. Unless Unless you’re somehow the leader of the team and can exert your weight more, but then why are you collaborating at that point? When I just hire people at that point.

[00:27:11.260] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it’s like taking a card of a mechanic and then arguing with a mechanic.

[00:27:14.100] – Brian Manning
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah.

[00:27:17.780] – Alan Petersen
So before we wrap up here, where can people find you online and follow your work?

[00:27:22.900] – Brian Manning
Yeah. So you can buy our books at shopmanningbrothers. Com. That’s where we’ve got all our books for sale, except for this new co-author series, because that’s Amazon exclusive now, but we’re thriller authors, mainly. So you’re going to find all our readers on shopmanningbrothers. Com. Or since our umbrella company that Alan and I write under is Tag Team Champs, you can find us the tag team champs on Instagram and threads as well. So that’s where we post a lot. All right.

[00:27:58.800] – Alan Petersen
Awesome. Well, thank you. And I’ll have links to that, of course, on the show notes for listeners. All right. Well, Brian, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It’s a real great talking to you.

[00:28:10.080] – Brian Manning
Thank you for inviting. It was a lot of fun.

[00:28:13.120] – Voice Over
Thanks for listening to Meet the Thriller author, hosted by Alan Peterson. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps other Thriller fans discover the show. You can find all past episodes, show notes, and author interviews at thrillerauthors. Com, including conversations with icons like Dean Koontz, Freida McFadden, and Lee Child. If you’re looking for your next gripping read, check out Alan’s own Psychological Thrillers and Crime Fiction Novels at thrillingreads. Com/books. Until next time, stay safe, keep reading, and keep the thrills coming.