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[00:00:03.700] – Announcer
Welcome to Meet the Thriller Author, the podcast where host Alan Peterson interviews mystery and thriller writers from around the world. A thriller author himself, Alan brings listeners engaging conversations with everyone from best-selling legends like Lee Child, Walter Moseley, Freda McFadden, and Dean Kuntz, to exciting new voices in the thriller and mystery genre. For show notes, archives, and more, visit visit thrillerauthors. Com, where you can also check out Alan’s own thriller novels and join the Thrilling Reads newsletter. And don’t forget to rate and review Meet the Thriller Author on your favorite podcast platform, especially Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And now let’s dive in. The latest episode starts right now.

[00:00:50.680] – Alan Petersen
Hey, everybody. This is Alan Petersen with Meet the Thriller Author. Today’s guest on the podcast is Traci Hunter-Abramson, former CIA officer, high school swimming coach, and award-winning author of more than 45 best-selling novels. Her newest thriller, Victim Number 8, will be released on October seventh. Tracey, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:11.000] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Well, thanks for having me.

[00:01:12.820] – Alan Petersen
Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. You’ve had such a fantastic journey going from the CIA to teaching in high school to now writing all these novels. Can you tell us just a little bit about people who aren’t familiar with you and your background, can you tell us a little bit about your journey from to this?

[00:01:31.000] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I was recruited by the CIA out of college. Even though I always wanted to be a writer, it was one of those things where nobody does this for a real living. Of course, I graduated out of college with a degree in finance and international business, which is what brought me to the CIA’s attention. I started writing for fun at the end of college. Then after six years with the agency, I left to raise my family and started coaching swimming and started writing. I’ve just been going solid in both ever since. I actually just left the coaching world. But I think the writing part, even though I’ve been doing it since I left the agency, it took me like six, seven years to get the first book published. It sounds smooth, but it really wasn’t. There’s a lot of rocky roads in there.

[00:02:18.140] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s what I’ve noticed doing this podcast over the years. Even the overnight sensations really are an overnight sensation.

[00:02:25.120] – Traci Hunter Abramson
No, never.

[00:02:26.310] – Alan Petersen
Interesting when I saw it, when I was doing a research in your background was that you studied abroad in Venezuela. That really caught my attention because I lived in Venezuela for nine years when I was a child. Oh, wow. Yeah, so it was an interesting connection there. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And has that even that type of background, that type of background, helped you with your writing career?

[00:02:47.320] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Oh, my gosh, it’s helped so much. I think living abroad always is helpful just because you understand culture so much better. But I went as a former exchange student during a summer between my junior and senior years of high school, and I lived in Caracas. This is back when it was a safe place to be. Venezuela and Colombia had a role reversal. Back then, Colombia was a place you would never want to go. In fact, I was almost deported a couple of times, once to Brazil and once to Colombia, because of my accent. They knew I wasn’t native to Venezuela, but they couldn’t tell that I wasn’t a native speaker. They got confused a little bit in a a couple of times. But then, we spent our weekends in Higarote, which is great beaches. Of course, everyone has a boat, and you just go out on the water, and you can see 20 feet down and don’t need to snorkel or anything. Anyway, it was an amazing experience. Venezuela, to me at the time, was like Kansas. It was like the middle of the Latino world. So your accent was easy. Everyone could understand you.

[00:04:00.000] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I still can’t understand people from Argentina, but that’s okay.

[00:04:03.460] – Alan Petersen
No, nobody can.

[00:04:04.960] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Exactly. That in Puerto Rico. Yeah.

[00:04:08.920] – Alan Petersen
That was so funny. It’s the same thing whenever people find out that I live there, they’re like, give me this look. I’m like, well, I was in the ’70s. It’s a little different nowadays.

[00:04:16.940] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Yeah, I was there in the ’80s.

[00:04:18.950] – Alan Petersen
Funny. Small world.

[00:04:21.080] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Definitely.

[00:04:22.280] – Alan Petersen
You do draw back on your international background. I know you’ve traveled all over the world. What about working for the CIA? Is that something… Since you always wanted to be a writer, when you were even there, you were like, Oh, I wonder if I could get some good writing ideas in the future from here.

[00:04:38.280] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I don’t think it was present in my mind at that time. I mean, you’re just going from one crisis to another, quite honestly. Working in the agency tends to be a lot of boring, but a lot of high stress at the same time. But now that when I started really writing, I couldn’t believe how many things came forward. But the funny thing is every single time for my first five books, everything I put in that had any roots in reality, I was told by my editor that it wasn’t realistic enough and I needed to change it. What happens in the real world and what happens in fiction, real world really is stranger.

[00:05:27.240] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, so interesting. It is like a balance, right? You want to be realistic, but you need to entertain. That’s what’s in your mind when you’re writing these?

[00:05:36.300] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Yeah. I think it’s that balance, both it’s the plausibility. You’re taking pieces of reality and then making it where people would believe that it’s real and having to change it to make that aspect work.

[00:05:50.920] – Alan Petersen
Victim #8 . That’s the second book in the Luke Steele series. Yeah. Sook Yee, tell us a little bit about that. What inspired the series, the character, and any differences from writing the first one to the second one?

[00:06:06.000] – Traci Hunter Abramson
The main character, Luke Steele, he’s a military aid for the President. He’s Marine Corps captain. I had a friend. I lived near Kwan, a co-marine base in Virginia. One of my friends who was assigned there at the time ended up being the military aide, so he had that exact position. Seeing him go through that journey of those couple of years working for the President. He was in the end of Obama’s term and beginning of Trump’s first term. Just being able to go into the White House in the different areas that the public can’t go to was really helpful for me. Then the other main character, Amberlyn Reiner, is an FBI behavioral analyst. That was one of those I had fun with. I met up with some people in the FBI up in New York at Thriller Fest a couple of years ago, and they just happened to have somebody talking on that. I was like, Oh, my gosh. I worked with them when I was with the agency, but it was seeing that different aspect of them talking about it was really helpful. As for the journey between the two books, I think that the second one was a little bit harder to write because…

[00:07:19.440] – Traci Hunter Abramson
The first one, I just had to get the story down. I had one of the premises in there had been in my head for 20 years, and so I just had to make it work. This one, I was like, Okay, what am I going to do? But one of the fun things was… I don’t know if you’ve seen it. Here’s the cover. This cover shot is actually a photo I took when I was in Istanbul. I knew that I wanted to use something a little different as far as location and things. That’s what I do a lot of times when I travel. I don’t know what I’m going to use until I get into the story. I had a mention of turkey in the first book, and I think it’d probably been because I’ve been there recently, and I was like, Oh, you know what? I’m just going to use this. It ends up being a… They think it’s a serial killer, and then they’re like, Is it really a serial killer who’d killed this? It was an American journalist who died in Istanbul. It’s just really these two characters trying to figure out the journey.

[00:08:22.400] – Traci Hunter Abramson
But it’s fun having two people working together who are not… They normally wouldn’t. You normally wouldn’t have a military aid in investigative role. And you normally, FBI behavioral analysts, normally don’t do that either. They’re giving you the heart of what might be helpful, but they’re not actually on boots on ground.

[00:08:46.060] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s fascinating. You use your own picture for your cover. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? What is that process like? I’ve never talked to an author who has used their own picture for the book cover.

[00:08:54.800] – Traci Hunter Abramson
It was totally the publisher’s decision, but I was The original cover was a dark… They recoloured it into more of the golden look. I’m sorry, originally, it was more of a darker color. But when I took the photo, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this could be the cover of a suspense novel. It just looked creepy and everything. I showed it to one of the project managers, and she’s like, Oh, my gosh, you’re right. You need to send that to me. I sent it to her. When they went to do the graphic artist, they were just given that photo saying, Hey, if you can make it work, see what you can do with this. And that’s what they did. So they put the two people on the cover. They superimposed those, but the original photo was the one I had taken when I was… It’s in the Basilica Cistern in Istanbul.

[00:09:48.700] – Alan Petersen
That’s wild. It’s exciting to see the cover of your own book for the first time, but I can’t imagine that plus being your picture. Yeah. Do you ever imagine when you were snapping that picture?

[00:10:01.520] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Not at all. My husband was an amateur photographer for a while, and his theory is, if you take a thousand photos, one of them will be good. I followed that rule of like, All right, just take a ton, and then maybe something will be a good one. But I still can’t believe that that one just framed so perfectly.

[00:10:22.720] – Alan Petersen
I was going to ask about that, too, because the international plays a big role, obviously, with these type of books. How do you research that? Do you usually use countries that you’ve visited before? Or can you tell us your research process on all that?

[00:10:38.940] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I’ve done both. I think the first time I said a book in Paris, I had never been there. I remember somebody saying, Oh, I didn’t realize you’d been in Paris. They’re like, Actually, I haven’t. I’ve had a few times where I just… You get on Google Earth, you talk to people who’ve been there, but it’s Mostly trying to get beyond what the tourist is going to see. Usually when I travel abroad, I try to go in and out of places in a different method, like transportation methods. For example, my first time into Paris, I took the train, and then I ended up flying out of there. When I went into Tallinn in Estonia, I think I flew into Tallinn, but then I took the ferry into Helsinki. Going into Riga, I took the bus, going going in from Vilnias. So it’s like I do different things, but I try to travel the way more locals would so that it’s not uncommon for me to be the only American on whatever transportation I’m on. And then it’s just a matter of I try to dress in a way that I would look European, which isn’t that hard, quite honestly, because I tend to like my clothes from there anyway.

[00:11:55.140] – Traci Hunter Abramson
But it’s mostly just you don’t know what you’re going to use, but being to be able to breathe the air, smell the sense, and taste the food, all of those things, they really do fall into adding more authenticity into the work.

[00:12:12.380] – Alan Petersen
I said in your book, too, the Luke Steele struggles with grief and self-doubts in this book. It’s different from usually when you’re reading these type of books, they’re usually superhuman. Is that important for you to show vulnerability when you’re writing these protagonists?

[00:12:26.340] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I think it’s anytime you give that extra depth to a character, I think it’s easier for the readers to relate. Because, yeah, you’re right. A lot of these characters are more of the superhuman type. They might have wounds, but usually the wound has already been established before the book starts. I wanted to take a different approach. A lot of the trauma that Luke is dealing with, that even Amberlyn is dealing with, that some of those occurred in the first book, so that people can actually see those happen instead of just hearing about what those challenges are. Honestly, one of the things that I have received from some of the early reviewers is that they appreciate an authentic look at the PTSD scenarios because it’s real life. A lot of people do deal with it. But I try not to go too dark into it so that you want to have hope at the end of the tunnel.

[00:13:27.240] – Alan Petersen
Same thing with the subject matter, because you’re dealing with some pretty big threats here, and nuclear threats. Do you do a lot of research for that, too? Because I mean…

[00:13:40.460] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I think a lot of it’s more of a write what you know thing. Part of it, I have to have things that are a little bit not too realistic, just because the CIA does clear my books, so I have to make sure that nothing’s too on point. But it’s mostly you start with the question, what if? What if something like, what scary thing could happen that I might want to throw into a book and torment my characters with? That’s what happens.

[00:14:12.580] – Alan Petersen
I was also wondering, too, because I saw that you You’ve also written romance novels, too. What’s the difference with the two genres? Do you approach them the same way? I’m just curious about that because they’re so different.

[00:14:27.500] – Traci Hunter Abramson
They are very different. I I will say almost every time I write a romance novel, inevitably somebody’s like, Don’t forget, this is not a suspense. I have to spend more time in the character’s heads. The pacing is a lot different. I would say most of my romance novels, they do typically have a sports theme. There’s still really some type of a suspense element. It’s just in a different way. It’s trying to work toward… You’re still working toward a goal. Those tend to be a little a bit easier for me. But trying to write a straight romance is always… It’s a little bit like eating candy after dinner. It’s a treat. It’s something different from my normal. But after a while, I’m like, Okay, I can’t have too much of this because it’s hard. It’s hard to switch gears.

[00:15:17.540] – Alan Petersen
You want to go back to killing people, right?

[00:15:19.760] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I know. I kill people for a living. That’s what I do.

[00:15:23.400] – Alan Petersen
Do you write the romance under your name? Or is it under your name? Yeah. Do you ever get confusion or cross It’s funny.

[00:15:31.650] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Most of the people who’ve been loyal fans, they’re like, It doesn’t matter what you write, we’ll read it. I was like, I love you guys so much. What do I say?

[00:15:39.940] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it’s a great compliment.

[00:15:42.360] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Yeah.

[00:15:43.800] – Alan Petersen
I was waiting out, too, about getting a little bit about your writing process also. I know this could say us all the time, but we’re all curious. Are you a plotter? Do you just start writing and figure the story as you go?

[00:15:58.960] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I am definitely a fingers on keyboard girl. Plot is a four-letter word that is not one I use often. But yeah, I’m probably the most extreme as far as a discovery writer, pants or however you want to term it, of anyone you’ll find, because I really don’t know anything about my story when I start. I typically try to have a character name, and I usually will have at least a base setting of where I’m starting the story. That’s about as far as I know when I go.

[00:16:28.780] – Alan Petersen
That’s great. Have you I imagine the challenge is with that, the dreaded writing yourself into a corner. Has that ever happened to you? How do you deal with that?

[00:16:38.520] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I’ve only had it happen one time really bad. It was going into a swim season. I had somebody literally was taken hostage. I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this bad guy is so good. How is she ever going to get out of this situation? That poor character sat there for four months all through the swim season. I could not figure out what was going to happen. I finally, after She sat down and said, Okay, that’s it. She’s got to get out of this situation. Usually, it’s just… I don’t normally write myself into corners. It’s not terribly common. Sometimes I’ll find I took wrong term, but it’s usually not more than a few hundred words worth of it. But yeah, I’m fortunate. I think for writers, it’s really important to just follow whatever process works best for you, because for me, it’s a natural… It’s like watching a movie. As viewers, we’re watching things happen thinking, Okay, these are the options of what could happen next. As a writer, I’m doing the same thing. I get to a point, I’m like, Okay, I’ve got these three options. What should happen? Then if I can find a fourth one that everyone doesn’t expect, fantastic.

[00:17:48.840] – Traci Hunter Abramson
But sometimes I’ll take one of the three and then throw another turn in toward the end. I just never know what I’m going to do. But wrong turns are not too frequent, thankfully.

[00:18:02.500] – Alan Petersen
Well, 45 books, so it’s obviously that process is working for you very well. I was curious about your writing habits. Do you write every day? And if so, do you set word counts to keep yourself on track?

[00:18:16.880] – Traci Hunter Abramson
The ideal is, typically, I try to get about 2,000 words a day. Sometimes I’ll drop it to 1,500. Sometimes on deadline, it’ll be a bit more than that. But really, when everything’s going well, my favorite place to write is I typically write on my treadmill, just walking on my treadmill. Then I also have an exercise bike that has a desk on it. If I can do those two things, usually I can get 1,000 to 1,500 words in a couple of hours. Then, of course, I’ll probably fight for the next 5 hours to find the next 500 words or whatever. Ideally, I typically try to do Monday through Saturday. If I’m having a really great week, Saturday turns into a half day. If it’s been a really rough week, I’ll go until midnight. It just depends on the week.

[00:19:11.580] – Alan Petersen
What do you use to write? Do you use a word or a scrivener or something else?

[00:19:15.500] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I originally drafted Scrivener. I have one of those old Alpha Smart Neo word processors. That’s what I normally like to draft on. I’m so much more efficient because I can’t go check my email or things like that. I can’t be looking Looking at what else is on the page and just writing. Then I dumped that into Scrivener. Then once I get through that first draft where I’m pretty sure that the structure is correct, then I dump everything into Word and I work my edits in Word. It’s a little of everything. But I love the Scrivener aspect because you can move the files. I don’t always write in an order. Sometimes I’m like, Oh, here’s an upcoming scene. I know this is going to happen, but I don’t know when. Being able to move things around is way as you’re in Scrivener.

[00:20:01.560] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, I like that alpha tab that’s cool, too. When you plug it in, you see the words flying into the…

[00:20:06.400] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Oh, yeah. I’m like, Man, I wish I could type this fast. Yeah.

[00:20:11.020] – Alan Petersen
That’s interesting. Also, another question I’ve been asking lately because I started wondering about these for the writers. Now, do you have music on? Do you need silence when you’re writing?

[00:20:23.080] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I don’t write to music, typically, but I don’t need silence either. I I’m normally down on my treadmill. I typically don’t like to hear TV or anything in the background because that could be distracting. But like I said, I live near Quantico, so it’s not uncommon where I have sound effects, where I can hear the automatic weapons going off or the ordnance, target practice. Marine 1 flies over me pretty regularly, which is the helicopter that takes the president to and from on the short distances. Anyway, I am very uncomfortable with background noise, but usually it’s to my benefit.

[00:21:06.440] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, that’s great. I discovered that last year when I was visiting in DC and I was at a coffee shop and the motorcades. I’m like, How do they get used to this every day? The first time was cool, then after 10 times, I’m like, Okay, this is weird. A motorcade was going by.

[00:21:25.180] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Oh, yeah. It happens. In fact, first time, I took one my young cousins to the White House, or we were just walking around DC, and we were coming up to where the motorcade would come out. I could see that the movement of the Secret Service agents. I told my niece or my cousin, I was like, Hey, either we need to cross this area right now quickly, or else we’re going to be stuck here for the next 10 minutes. She looked at me like, What? I said, Which one do you want to do? You want to be on this side or that side? She’s like, Okay, that side. The secret service agents were looking me like, How do you know? I’m like, Dude, I’m a local. Of course I know. Anyway, he just laughed.

[00:22:10.160] – Alan Petersen
I was curious with your background as a swimming coach. I have to ask Because you’ve been able to dip your experiences in the CIA. What about as a swimming coach? Have you been able to use any of that in any of your books?

[00:22:23.860] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Oh, yeah. I have a series that was Navy Seals, so I did a lot with that. But Special Ops have Ben very frequently, would visit my pool and look for, Hey, do you have anybody that you could send our way? I did end up having one young man who went for pre-bud, and I’m not sure. I know he ended up having to switch out for an early injury. But I was like, Most of my guys, they’re going to be officer-bound if they’re going military. These are really, really bright young men and women. A lot of times, they’re looking They’re looking for the intelligence, but people who maybe are more interested in enlisting rather than doing a college route first. But yeah, I’ve used a lot. I’ve actually had a couple of my… I’ve had swimming as a background in a couple of books. It’s been fun. Use a lot of those characters. I also had my swimmers. I’d be like, Hey, guys, I need a main character. One girl, her name is Hadley, and she’s like, Oh, you can use mine. I’m like, Do you want me to use your first name or last name?

[00:23:31.100] – Traci Hunter Abramson
She goes, You can use both. I’m like, Great. She was my character. It was fun. They’d help me choose covers when they’d give me narrow down covers for my publisher and stuff. It’s been a lot of fun.

[00:23:46.940] – Alan Petersen
I’m also curious, too. Before you started writing readers yourself, were you a fan of the genre as a reader?

[00:23:53.840] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I was. I’ve always read… I’m really, really eclectic I would read just about anything. Sandra Brown, Nora Roberts were probably two that I read the most. But then you’d have the typical of Tom Clancy and Vince Flynn, Clive Cusler. I mean, a lot of those. What I would do, though, is David Balducci and John Grysha were others. But a lot of those, I would read… Instead of reading everything by one author, I would read one by an author and read one by a different author, and I would just keep rotating through. But I think that that was really great for me because it helped me find my own voice when I started writing. I never felt like I was trying to imitate somebody else. But yes, I definitely enjoyed the genre. It’s been fun seeing some of those names pop into different conferences I go to and things like that.

[00:24:51.120] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, and I said on your website, you’ve actually spoken at the BoucherCon.

[00:24:56.200] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Bouchercon? Yeah.

[00:24:57.520] – Alan Petersen
Thriller Fest, Killer Nashville. Do you enjoy that, connecting with other writers and readers at conferences? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:25:03.790] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Oh, I do. I think that’s one of the best parts of being an author is connecting with other authors and then also connecting with the readers. But one thing I will say about the thriller community is I have found it to be very, very supportive. It’s fun that you have a lot of people who have similar backgrounds to where I’m coming from, that either have been in special ops or military service, the intelligence community, things like that. But also just… I remember at Boucher Con last year, Brad Thor had stopped me and was like, Hey, are you Tracy Abramson? I was like, Yes. He’s introduced himself, and I was like, Okay, can I just tell you this is a surreal moment that you even know that I exist, much less who I am. But Brad’s great about cultivating those friendships with people who is like, Okay, this is he’s never worked in, but maybe people who might be able to help him out in the future. But he’s also been very willing to lend the hand. I mean, he was kind enough to blurb victim number 8 and do an endorsement for that. But I find that across the board.

[00:26:17.590] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Everyone is just so kind and so helpful.

[00:26:20.340] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, it’s going to be wild when you see a blurb from someone like Brett Thorpe. It’s going to be surreal.

[00:26:26.180] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Yeah, well, and Alex Finley was another one who did one. Alex, I’d gone in and done a master class with him, and he’s just a great, great guy. But anyway, and then Jack Stuart was one I’d met him before he even got published. He was another one who did a blurb. Then Luke Beneke, I’d met because his name’s Luke, and I was like, Okay, we need to have you blurb one of the Luke books. It was just these guys, they’re all just so much fun.

[00:27:00.000] – Alan Petersen
Do you have plans for any more Luke Steal novels? What’s in the horizon for you?

[00:27:04.580] – Traci Hunter Abramson
I actually just today got the edit back for the third one, so I’ll be working on that. But the plan is I’ll go at least four, and then depending on how it’s how it’s going. I do have an idea of how I could pivot the series to continue it, and they’ll decide if they want me to do that or work on, create a different series.

[00:27:28.560] – Alan Petersen
Are you Are you working on that now or are you also still writing romance?

[00:27:33.160] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Right now, I’m mostly just writing the suspense because I have so many that are on the docket. I think I have five, let’s see, 2026. I think I have four releases next year, plus a couple of paperback releases next year. Then I think the same thing will happen in 2027. I I have to finish up all the suspense books I have under contract, and then I can see if I get to take a little detour for a break or not.

[00:28:09.300] – Alan Petersen
Yeah, a little breather.

[00:28:10.900] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Yeah.

[00:28:13.140] – Alan Petersen
Okay. Now, Final question that I always ask my guests is, since you speak at conferences, this is awesome. Any advice for aspiring thriller writers that are listening to this show?

[00:28:26.420] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Honestly, the biggest thing that helped me I started out was finding somebody who gave me really good honest feedback. I know International Thriller Writers, ITW, has a critique program. It’s called Thriller Teek. Where you can create… They basically have critique groups that are set up, and people can get on the waitlist for that. But whether it’s something like that or through a local library or even just a trusted… It can be a trusted friend or family member, but it has to be somebody who’s not going to just say how fabulous it is. They need to actually give you constructive criticism. But it’s really helpful because when you do get that criticism later from an editor or somebody in the professional realm, you’ve already started learning how to implement that. And then, of course, the other thing would be going to those types of conferences, Thriller Fest and Boucher, Khan, Killer Nashville, any of those. It can really help you not only to advance your technique and your craft, but also to start making some of those connections with other people in the industry.

[00:29:34.480] – Alan Petersen
All right. Great. Great advice. So before we go, can you share with listeners where they can find you online to learn more about your books?

[00:29:42.380] – Traci Hunter Abramson
So it’s just traciabramson. Com. It’s T-R-A-C-I. A-B-R-A-M-S-O-N. And then, of course, I’m same thing at Instagram. That’s usually where you’ll find what’s happening next.

[00:29:55.020] – Alan Petersen
All right, great. So, Tracy, thank you so much for joining me today. It’s It’s been a real pleasure talking with you.

[00:30:29.620] – Traci Hunter Abramson
Well, thanks so much for having me.

[00:30:41.580] – Announcer
Thanks for listening to Meet the Thriller author, hosted by Alan Peterson. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps other thriller fans discover the show. You can find all past episodes, show notes, and author interviews at thrillerauthors. Com, including conversations with icons like Dean Kuntz, Freda McFadden, and Lee Child. And if you’re looking for your next gripping read, check out Alan’s own Psychological Thrillers and Crime Fiction Novels at thrillingreads. Com/books. Until next time, stay safe, keep reading, and keep the thrills coming.