This transcript was generated with the help of AI and only got a quick once-over from a human. So if you spot a typo or something that doesn’t make sense… let’s just blame the robots. 🤖

Alan Petersen 0:00

You are listening to Meet the Thriller Author, a podcast where I interview some of the most talented mystery and thriller writers out there. I’m your host, Alan Petersen, and this is episode number 193.

In this episode of the podcast, we’ll be meeting number one Amazon and USA Today bestselling author Freida McFadden. Freida is a medical doctor specializing in brain injury and a prolific writer who has penned multiple Kindle bestselling psychological thrillers and medical humor novels. Her books have been recognized with honors such as selection as one of Amazon Editors’ Best Books of the Year and a nomination for the Goodreads Choice Award.

Her novels have been translated into more than 30 languages. In this episode, we’ll be discussing her latest book, The Housemaid’s Secret, which is the sequel to the international bestseller—and one of my personal favorite thrillers of 2022—The Housemaid.

The much-anticipated sequel hit shelves on February 20. I was able to get an advance review copy of The Housemaid’s Secret, and you won’t be disappointed. I highly recommend you check out her latest thriller.

Before we get to the interview, though, I’d like to tell you a little bit about this episode’s sponsor, MasterClass.

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For show notes and access to more than 190 author interviews, please visit THRILLINGREADS.COM. Please also take a moment to rate and review Meet the Thriller Author on your favorite podcast platform. This helps me reach more listeners.

All right, here is my interview with Freida McFadden.

Hey, everybody. This is Alan with Meet the Thriller Author, and on the podcast today I have Freida McFadden, who is a number one Amazon and USA Today bestselling author.

She’s a practicing physician specializing in brain injury and has penned multiple Kindle bestselling psychological thrillers and medical humor novels. Her work has been selected as one of Amazon Editors’ Best Books of the Year, she has been a Goodreads Choice Award nominee, and her novels have been translated into more than 30 languages.

Her latest book, The Housemaid’s Secret, is a sequel to the international bestseller—and one of my favorite thrillers of 2022—The Housemaid. It was published on February 20. I’m so excited you’re here. Welcome to the podcast.

Freida McFadden 2:54

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Alan Petersen 2:57

To get things rolling, can you tell us a little bit about your latest book and what inspired you to write it?

Freida McFadden 3:04

Yeah. So my latest is The Housemaid’s Secret. It’s a sequel to The Housemaid. The response from readers to The Housemaid just blew me away. It was so exciting, and I wasn’t ready to leave those characters behind. Everybody wanted to know what was going to happen with Millie and what was next in her story. The ending kind of left things open for that.

So I got this idea, and I thought, “I’m going to write this.” Everyone was so excited about it, so I knew I had to do it.

I really wanted it to be a good experience for everyone. We’ve all read sequels that were kind of disappointing, so I wanted to make sure it stayed true to the original and that people loved it just as much.

Alan Petersen 3:51

That’s kind of different for psychological thrillers because they’re usually standalones. I’m really excited to see the series continuing with the same character.

Freida McFadden 3:58

Definitely. I’ve been hesitant to write sequels. Everybody says, “Write a sequel to this book or that book.” But I kind of feel like the existence of a sequel gives away the ending.

In general, I’m not excited to write them, but I felt like I could do this one from Millie’s point of view. I don’t think it gives away anything from the first book. You can actually read it as a standalone because it’s just Millie’s story.

I really tried hard to do that. I don’t know if there will be any more sequels in the future, but I thought I could make this happen. We’ll see.

Alan Petersen 4:40

I’m excited. It comes out February 20, so that’s right around the corner from when we’re recording this.

Freida McFadden 4:51

By the time people are listening, yeah, exactly.

Alan Petersen 4:52

Yeah, by the time you listen to this, it will already be out, so go get it. But it’s available for preorder right now.

The success of The Housemaid—your name is all over Amazon’s Top 100. That must be surreal. How does that feel for you?

Freida McFadden 5:12

It’s so crazy. I’ve been writing books since I was nine years old, and it was always just fun. When I started self-publishing, it was just me having fun. I love to write, and I wanted to share what I was writing with everyone.

I was never aiming for or intending for this to happen, but it is so exciting. It makes me so happy that so many people are enjoying my books. It’s really like a dream. It’s amazing.

Alan Petersen 5:47

What was it like when you first started publishing your books? Did they just start taking off? Did you market them? I’m curious.

Freida McFadden 5:55

It was not like that at all. It was a very slow trajectory.

I published my first book in 2013, and at the time I had a blog about being a doctor. My first book was about my residency—specifically, my internship. I had a senior resident who was so mean to me, and I wanted to write a book about it.

I just wanted to tell this story. I didn’t care about selling it. I thought people from my blog would buy it.

I remember selling about 500 copies in the first few months, and I was so happy with that. I was like, “I’ve done it. I’ve published my book. I’m done.”

Then, of course, I got another idea, and it just snowballed. When COVID hit, I think a lot of people started reading more. All of a sudden, my books became much, much more popular. It happened pretty suddenly, and that was amazing.

For me, I’m still doing the same thing and doing what’s fun. I just feel lucky that people are reading it.

Alan Petersen 7:08

Your characters are one of the reasons people love your books so much. They’re interesting, and they’re cool. How do you approach the process of creating characters for your novels?

Freida McFadden 7:23

I’m glad to hear you say they’re cool. The protagonists are always based on me, of course.

Alan Petersen 7:31

Okay, so you’re cool. All right.

Freida McFadden 7:33

So I’m cool. I have to tell my kids this. Guess what?

All my protagonists—when people criticize them, they’ll say, “Oh, they’re not likable. They get pushed around too easily.” And I’m like, “Yeah, that sounds about right.”

Alan Petersen 7:57

But they’ll piss you off.

Freida McFadden 8:01

Yeah. The other characters are sometimes based on people I know in real life.

I look at The Housemaid as kind of a bad-boss story, at least at the beginning. We’ve all had that awful boss who is so mean and terrible. I love terrible-boss stories, so that was kind of the beginning of it. We’ve all had that experience.

I come up with characters I think are fun to read about and situations that are super frustrating and might come up in real life. I think people like to read about that. They like to see the protagonist get tortured and then see how they deal with it. At least, that’s something I enjoy reading about.

Alan Petersen 8:55

That’s been one of the fun things about this subgenre—psychological thrillers feature regular people rather than FBI agents or police officers.

Freida McFadden 9:03

I’m not going to write an FBI story. That’s just not going to happen.

Alan Petersen 9:09

Do you think that’s why these books have become so popular, especially now? Is it because people can see themselves in these situations?

Freida McFadden 9:15

Yeah, I think that’s the thing with domestic thrillers. You put yourself in that situation.

I always write in the first person, and I try to write in a very conversational way. I actually dictate a lot of my writing, so I think that’s why it sounds very conversational. It’s literally me talking.

I think people like that. I describe my writing as a friend telling you an especially juicy piece of gossip. You’re like, “Yeah, I want to hear more of this.”

Alan Petersen 9:47

Before you started writing psychological thrillers, did you enjoy the genre? Had you read them before?

Freida McFadden 9:54

Yeah. I think that’s part of why I started writing them.

I’ve always loved thrillers. When I was a kid, one of my favorites was Mary Higgins Clark. I loved Robin Cook’s medical thrillers and Michael Crichton. I’ve always loved to read, and I’ve read thrillers on and off. I loved Gone Girl, of course. Who didn’t?

Then I read a book by an author named Shalini Boland. Have you heard of her?

Alan Petersen

No, I haven’t.

Freida McFadden

She’s an amazing British author. It was a domestic thriller called The Best Friend, and it was really well done.

I remember waking up in the middle of the night mad at the characters in this book. I was so angry about what was happening. I wanted to recreate that feeling of being so passionate about something that could be happening to me and thinking, “This is so frustrating. I want to punch this character in the face.”

That was what inspired me to start writing domestic thrillers.

Alan Petersen 11:12

You really hit that out of the park with The Housemaid because I went through all those emotions.

Freida McFadden 11:16

Yeah. If you don’t want to punch the characters, I have failed.

Alan Petersen 11:25

In case some listeners aren’t too familiar with the genre, what makes a thriller psychological?

Freida McFadden 11:38

Wow, that’s a good question. I’ve never been asked that before.

I think it’s a mind-twisting type of thing. My mother sometimes reads my books, and she’s always like, “This is horror.”

And I’m like, “It’s not horror. It’s a psychological thriller.”

But who knows what the difference is? Nobody really does, so I’ll just make something up now.

It bends your brain, maybe, without actually showing you something disgusting. In a horror movie, the person has been chopped into little pieces, and they show every little detail of it. In a psychological thriller, the person is in the room waiting to be chopped up, and you’re in their head feeling their fear. But there’s no disgusting chopping up.

Does that make sense?

Alan Petersen 12:38

Yeah, I’m nodding in agreement. It’s kind of like Alfred Hitchcock’s movies. People say he’s a master of horror, but they’re more suspenseful and psychological, like Psycho.

Freida McFadden 12:50

I love Alfred Hitchcock. One of my books is like a tribute to his movies. Do Not Disturb is mostly a tribute to Psycho. It’s about a creepy motel, but it also includes little details from Rear Window and some episodes of Alfred Hitchcock Presents, which I used to love when I was younger. I think I watched it on Nick at Nite.

I’m a huge fan. He did it so well. A real genius.

Alan Petersen 13:32

I loved those too. I remember watching reruns of his TV show on cable. It was really good.

Freida McFadden 13:41

Yeah, and he was so funny too.

Alan Petersen 13:45

His introductions were so cool.

Freida McFadden 13:47

Yeah, exactly.

Alan Petersen 13:49

Circling back to your writing—as a writer, I get snoopy about other writers’ routines. Do you have a set writing routine when you’re working on something? Do you start writing immediately, or do you outline? How does your process work?

Freida McFadden 14:09

I’m pretty regimented, but not in the way a lot of other writers are.

Because I have another job, I wait for a time when I’m not too busy. I might choose a vacation week or a week when I know my schedule will be really light.

Before I get to that point, I plan it all in my head. I don’t write outlines, but I’m always thinking—often in the shower or while walking or driving. I’m constantly planning the story for maybe two months before I start writing.

Then, when I sit down, it’s a binge. I write like a crazy person for a couple of weeks, and then it’s done. But there’s a whole process leading up to that. Then, of course, the editing comes afterward, and that takes forever.

Alan Petersen 15:05

So when you start writing, you already have the whole story in your head. It’s just a matter of getting it out.

Freida McFadden 15:13

Yeah, it’s in my head. Some people do these very detailed outlines, but I don’t like that.

I plot things out, but I also like to let the characters take me where they want to go because you don’t know what will happen until you start writing.

You might really like a character and find that one speaks to you. You might create a side character you suddenly really like and realize they could become an important part of the story. You don’t know until you get there, and I don’t want to be tied down by an outline I wrote.

I do plan a lot, though, especially the twist. People talk about plotters versus pantsers, but I don’t see how a psychological thriller author could pants. Is that a verb—“pants”?

Alan Petersen 16:05

I think it is. I think it’s become one.

Freida McFadden 16:08

Yeah, I don’t see how you could pants because you have to set up the twist. The twist is super important, and if you don’t know what it is going into the story, it’s very hard to set it up.

That’s the one thing that’s important to me. I will not start writing until I’ve got a twist.

This is how I know it’s a good twist: I tell it to my husband. I go through the whole story with him and tell him the twist. If he says, “Oh, that’s pretty cool,” or if he laughs—that’s another option—then I’m like, “Okay, I can write this.”

Alan Petersen 16:49

Do you usually look for one big twist, or do you prefer multiple twists?

Freida McFadden 16:59

I think it really has to be one twist, but the twist can have components that come together. Each part of it should fit together, but I think it’s really all one twist.

You could argue there are multiple twists. Actually, I would say The Housemaid’s Secret might have two twists. How about that?

Alan Petersen 17:28

All right, cool. I look forward to discovering those.

How do you balance all of this? You’re a physician, so that’s a very busy day job. How do you balance writing with the demands of the other aspects of your life?

Freida McFadden 17:44

I also have two children. I wish there were 25 or 26 hours in the day.

It can be challenging. There are times when I’m doing well and other times when I’m not doing it as well, but I try my best.

I work only part-time as a physician, so that helps. About four and a half years ago, I went from working more full-time to part-time, and that has given me a lot more time for my writing.

I’m also the kind of person who always likes to be busy and doing five things at once.

I do a lot of social media stuff, and people will say, “How are you constantly doing this? Don’t you have a job?”

I’m like, “Well, I’m kind of doing it during meetings.” If the meeting isn’t that interesting, I get my phone out and start liking comments, and nobody notices I’m doing it under the table.

I mean, no meetings are important. I’m just going to say that. I don’t think I’ve ever been to a meeting in my life that was important, so I think it’s okay.

Alan Petersen 18:51

You finish those meetings wondering, “Was this really necessary?”

Freida McFadden 18:54

Yeah, exactly. I don’t say that anymore because I got a lot done on social media during the meeting, so thank you.

Alan Petersen 19:03

You mentioned social media. I think I first started hearing about and seeing your books popping up on TikTok. I don’t know much about TikTok. I’ve been there and watched some videos, but can you tell us a little bit about it?

Freida McFadden 19:18

Anything about TikTok?

Alan Petersen 19:20

Just that they love your books?

Freida McFadden 19:22

It just happened. I wish I could say I had the magic TikTok formula, but I do not.

I have an account. I think I know how to log in. I’ve watched a couple of videos. I have no idea how to record a video.

Alan Petersen 19:44

We’ll show you how to do it—dancing and all that stuff.

Freida McFadden 19:46

Yeah, I don’t think you’re ever going to see me dancing on TikTok. I’m sorry. That’s just not in my repertoire.

Alan Petersen 19:55

When you started getting a lot of attention there, how did you find out? Did you notice it and realize something was going on?

Freida McFadden 20:05

Mostly, people told me. Somebody said, “Your books are really popular on TikTok.”

And I was like, “What’s TikTok?”

I knew vaguely what TikTok was, but then I thought, “Okay, I’ve got to start an account and see what’s going on.”

I love that people on TikTok enjoy my books and that it has helped me. I have no idea what to do with all that. I think I’ve figured out Instagram, and I’ve figured out Facebook, but I think I’m just too old for TikTok.

I appreciate that younger, savvier people are promoting me there. I’m very appreciative, but I’m too old.

Alan Petersen 20:50

That’s good. It’s like having a publicity team on TikTok.

Freida McFadden 20:55

I don’t even have to pay them, I guess.

Alan Petersen 20:58

That’s ideal.

Freida McFadden 21:00

I’m very grateful because I can’t figure out how to do it.

Alan Petersen 21:05

You said it sometimes takes a month or more to develop the idea for your book. Do you write every day? Do you set aside time to write each day?

Freida McFadden 21:16

I don’t. As I said, I’m a binge writer. I’ll write a lot. I could write 10,000 words in a day.

I dictate, as I said, and then I can go a couple of months without writing.

I like to write and share parts of myself, so I have a reader group on Facebook called Freida McFans. I thought that was extremely clever when I came up with it. I tell little stories about my life there.

That satisfies my urge to tell little stories and write a little bit every day, but I’m not doing heavy-duty storytelling each day. I need a break.

I have another job. This needs to be fun for me. It needs to be something enjoyable. If I had to do it every day, it would become a job, and I do not want that.

Alan Petersen 22:21

I know this is kind of a boring question, but it’s always fascinating to me: How do you decide on the titles for your books?

Freida McFadden 22:29

It’s the hardest part. You can write 80,000 words, and then that two- or three-word title is impossible. I don’t know.

I always have a working title in my head. Sometimes I’m very lucky and can use it, and other times it doesn’t work out.

That happened twice recently. With The Housemaid, I was writing it several years before it was published, and the working title in my head was The Maid. I thought that was a great title.

Then a book by Nita Prose called The Maid came out and became very popular. I thought, “I guess I can’t call my book that anymore.”

I did the book with a company called Bookouture, and they came up with The Housemaid. They’re a British company, and I had never heard that word before. I was like, “What is that? A housemaid? Is that like a cleaning person?”

I guess it’s the same as a maid, but it’s the British version. It’s not a word I would use, but now I love the word. It totally suits the book, so I’m very happy with The Housemaid.

Alan Petersen 23:53

It’s like “the butler” or something.

Freida McFadden 23:56

Yeah. Are there still butlers in Britain? I don’t know.

Alan Petersen 24:00

Yeah, sure. King Charles probably has one.

Freida McFadden 24:09

Remember Mr. Belvedere?

Alan Petersen 24:11

Absolutely. The ’80s.

Freida McFadden 24:14

We’re really showing our age now.

There’s another book I did called Never Lie. The working title for that was The Therapist because it’s about a psychiatrist.

Of course, B.A. Paris came out with a book called The Therapist right when I finished writing mine, so I had to scramble and come up with another title.

Sometimes people say, “I don’t think this is the best title for your book.”

And I’m like, “I’m sorry. Someone else took my title.”

Alan Petersen 24:54

You’ve got to come up with the titles faster now.

Freida McFadden 24:59

I know. I always get scooped. I don’t know why. They’re somehow getting onto my hard drive and finding out what I’m writing.

Alan Petersen 25:09

You mentioned Bookouture.

Freida McFadden 25:12

Bookouture? I might be saying that wrong.

Alan Petersen 25:15

I know. I obviously butcher it too. But I’m really impressed with the books they publish. They seem to have made a strong impact in the thriller world.

Freida McFadden 25:28

Oh, yeah. They have a lot of great authors. Shalini Boland, whom I mentioned, is with them. Another author I’m friendly with, Daniel Hurst, puts out some amazing books. He recently started writing with them.

They have some great authors. They’re very good to work with and very nice people. My editor there gave me some great advice.

I don’t think The Housemaid would have been as good without my editor, Ellen, so I’m very grateful to them for that.

Alan Petersen 26:13

I met Daniel Hurst in Las Vegas at a writers’ conference.

Freida McFadden 26:19

He’s super nice. I love his books.

Alan Petersen 26:26

Your first books were published independently. What was the transition to working with a publishing house like for you?

Freida McFadden 26:38

It wasn’t too bad. It was nice having some professional guidance on the manuscript. Usually, I just use my own beta readers and editors.

It was different because you have to give up some control. They gave me the blurb, and I was like, “No, no, no. I want it like this and this and this.”

It’s hard to give up that control.

Can you hear me? Never mind. It suddenly said “mute.”

Sorry. It was good to have more professional guidance. I was worried about the cover. I thought, “What if they give me a bad cover? What will I say?”

Then they showed me the cover, and I almost cried. I was like, “I love this cover.”

Alan Petersen 27:35

Your covers are awesome. I’ve always been very impressed with the covers they create for their books.

Freida McFadden 27:47

Yeah, I love the eye-catching cover and the yellow. I love the new one too, with the red and yellow. It’s a little McDonald’s-ish, but I still love it.

Alan Petersen 28:02

I hadn’t thought about the whole McFadden–McDonald’s connection.

Freida McFadden 28:07

Yeah, exactly. It totally fits.

Alan Petersen 28:11

You mentioned that you think about your story for a while before writing it. Do you do a lot of research for your books?

Freida McFadden 28:23

Google is my friend. How did anyone write a book before Google? Imagine.

Alan Petersen 28:28

James Michener wrote those huge books. How did he do it?

Freida McFadden 28:34

I’m dating myself again, but I remember going to libraries to research school projects. It was awful. There was this decimal system you had to know, and I never figured it out.

I’m very glad Google came along because otherwise I might have had to learn the Dewey Decimal System to use libraries.

I Google everything, but I do other research too. I really try to make things authentic whenever I can.

I have a book called The Inmate, which is about a nurse practitioner working in a prison. I know the medical part, of course, but I had a friend put me in touch with a physician assistant who worked in a prison treating patients. We talked, and he told me about his experiences. I also read a couple of books by people who had done medical work in prisons.

I really try to keep things accurate. Sometimes things aren’t accurate because I have to take poetic license to make the plot work.

Somebody will say, “This would have taken years, and you made it take two months.”

I’m like, “You didn’t want to read two years of minutiae, so just be happy I changed it.”

Google, for the most part. I just hope the police never get into my computer and check my internet history, or I’ll be in prison too.